Digital Video Conference - Broader Middle East and North Africa

Washingoton,  DC and London, U.K.
November 29, 2004

MR. JOHNSON: Under Secretary, good morning (inaudible) London.

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: It's good to see you after all your travels, Ambassador.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Well, I've been ten days in a row with His Majesty in Mexico and Brazil, so I just got back with a great jetlag.

MR. JOHNSON: Al, I'm David Johnson, if you don't recognize me.

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: I do.

MR. JOHNSON: Good to see you, and thank you, Ambassador Amrani, for coming over to the American Embassy. This is largely a Moroccan production but we wanted to get to have Al participate as well, and so we're grateful for you for coming over and letting us do this in our building here, and we're also very grateful for what you just described as your heroic arrival here after only one overnight and several hours on an airplane. Thank you very much.

Ambassador Amrani, if I could ask you to make a few opening remarks; and then when he concludes, Under Secretary Larson, if you would follow up; and then Ambassador Liz McKeon will recognize the journalists who are present and give them an opportunity to ask questions.

I'd suggest that, as much as we can, we try to keep this in English so that both Ambassador Amrani and Under Secretary Larson can understand the back-and-forth, and perhaps at the end, if we need to have some exchanges in Arabic, maybe that would be the time to do that.

So, without further ado, Ambassador Amrani. Thank you.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Thank you very much, and I thank you very much for attending this briefing with Al Larson, who is the Under Secretary of State in Washington, and myself, who have been working together for the last three months on the Forum for the Future.

As you all know, this initiative has been adopted by the G-8 leaders in Sea Island in June 2004 and entitled, "A Partnership for Progress and a Common Future with the Region of the Broader Middle East and North Africa."

As you all know, this meeting which will be held in Rabat on December the 11th at the level of the foreign ministers and on the 10th of December at the level of the sub-minister of cabinet meeting, will gather the ministers of foreign affairs and also the ministers of finance of the region and their G-8 counterpart.

Also, this meeting will be attended by regional and international organizations, mainly the Arab League, the Arab Maghreb Union, the Gulf Cooperation Council and the European Union. Also, other finance and international organizations will attend this meeting.

As you are all aware, the Forum of the Future is a mechanism which allows an ongoing dialogue and also it is an open architecture open to the countries of the region and their partners from the G-8.

What is this, then? The participants of the Forum will examine in Rabat, in the meeting of Rabat, the implementation of the mechanisms adopted at Sea Island and also during the other meeting held in New York on September 24th on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly, and also to implement some decisions and the ideas that were discussed during the ministers of finance meeting in Washington on October the 1st. I think October the 1st.

So the importance here is to stress on the commitment of the countries of the region for a joint partnership, a joint partnership in order to consolidate, the political, economic and social reforms process in the region, as it was also expressed during the last Arab Summit held in Tunis, commitment of the Arab countries for reforms.

So I think that's just enough to end this introductory remark by saying that this first issue of the Forum seeks to promote a sincere and constructive partnership which is (inaudible) the joint responsibility shared by the countries of the region and of the G-8, of course, and respectfully of the will and the diversity of each country.

Of course, we also will tackle other issues in order to promote this partnership as far as settlement of dispute in the region, but it is more emphasized on the necessity to undertake a joint partnership with each country of G-8 in order to promote the reform process in our region.

I think I made, if you will allow me, I think it was a (inaudible) introduction about what is the purpose of our Rabat meeting. If you have something to add, please do.

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: Thank you very much. I would only wish to underscore a very few of the points that Ambassador Amrani made. The first is that for us in the United States it's been a great honor and privilege to work with our Moroccan counterparts on the preparations for the meeting in Rabat. We've established a very good team and Ambassador Amrani has been at the point of that, of those preparations.

Secondly, we do see our involvement as being one in supporting initiatives that are already underway in the region. We noticed with great interest the Tunis Summit Declaration of the Arab League that Ambassador Amrani referred to and we've noticed other important calls for creating greater opportunity for the next generation of citizens in the broader Middle East.

And so we are trying to work with our G-8 counterparts to put ourselves in a position where we can support these regionally-owned initiatives for creating greater opportunity. We believe very much that one size doesn't fit all, but we want to be in a position of support where countries think that we can help them.

The last point I would make is there has been some good preparation, and Ambassador Amrani referred to the meeting that Foreign Minister Benaissa and Secretary of State Powell chaired in New York on the 24th of September, and that was a really good session that I think basically concluded with a decision to launch this Forum for the Future and the decision that Morocco would be a good place to have the first meeting of the Forum and that this should be seen as a full and respectful partnership between the countries of the broader Middle East and the countries of the G-8.

Those are the only points, Ambassador, that I would underscore from your presentation.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: And let me only add as far as the preparation of this meeting up to date, we are going to discuss in Rabat the different initiatives which were adopted at Sea Island, and we are now receiving the papers from the different countries which are responsible on these initiatives, and I quote: We have the literacy initiative, which is sponsored by Algeria and Afghanistan, and they are preparing a paper on this issue; the investment task force, which is being sponsored by Jordan, and Jordan has already prepared a paper on this issue; the merger of funds by Bahrain; the initiative concerning Democracy Assistance Dialogue -- Italy, Turkey and Yemen, and I think that the meeting would have Italy will, I think, bring some progress in this issue; the micro-finance initiative, which are sponsored by Jordan and Yemen; and, finally, the entrepreneurship and business (inaudible), Morocco and Bahrain.

We have just received some papers on this initiative, and this I agree with Al Larson, shows that the countries themselves, they are involved in the process and they are preparing now some feasibility studies and a vision for the implementation of these initiatives. This also shows that not only the countries concerned are committed on these issues, but they are bringing something new and some new ideas in order to boost and to develop these initiatives.

This is to comment on the ownership issue of the initiative. The countries are committed and working together to present a vision for the future. And I think this, for me, this is an important issue.

Another issue I want to stress on is that this mechanism is flexible, it's open, it is done in partnership with the G-8 countries and the countries of the region. It is also respectful of the mechanisms in the region. It is also respectful of the specificities of the countries in the region as far as religion, culture and so on. It is a process initiative which is respectful also of the existing mechanisms in the region, like the Barcelona process.

So, for that reason, this is not a duplication role, of course; it is a new initiative which is aimed at promoting reforms, democracy, partnership and economic development in the region. It is open. It is open to countries who are committed and who are willing to participate in this initiative. Nothing is imposed. And it's impossible to (inaudible) on this issue because there was some misunderstanding, people initially were, but this is open architecture, flexible mechanism and open to all the countries who are interested to join.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: I think I'd like to open this up for questions, if that's all right with you and Under Secretary Larson. I'm Ambassador Liz McKeon and I thought that we would handle it this way: The questions would be in English and each reporter would have an opportunity to ask one question; and then, time permitting, then we could just open it up for anyone who had follow-up questions.

Is that agreeable to everybody? Okay, why don't we start with you. Also, could you please give your name and the news agency you belong to?

QUESTION: Yunis Yamani (ph). I am from Asharq al-Awsat newspaper, an Arabic language newspaper issued here in London.

What I would like to ask a question about whether this mechanism of broader Middle East and the Forum will touch the problems, the longstanding problems in the region, like the conflict, the Israeli -- Arab and Israeli conflict or the problem between Algeria and Morocco, for instance, regarding over the issue of Sahara.

We have seen the Barcelona process, for instance, that couldn't reach its horizon of having -- of having -- I mean, it started in 2010 because of these longstanding problems.

Don't you think -- I mean, both ambassadors -- that this new mechanism will also -- would also be very -- would also fail to achieve its objectives because of these longstanding conflicts?

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Can I start first?

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: Okay.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Well, we already have tackled in New York, if you've seen our declaration in New York, tackled the two main issues now in the region, the Iraq and the Palestinian issue.

We believe in Morocco and with our other partners of the G-8 that the solution of the Israeli-Arab conflict, or at least the first implementation of the roadmap and a real commitment on this issue may create a strong dynamic in the region in favor of this initiative. It will create a dynamic in order to (inaudible) and to help in the implementation of other initiatives.

We think we should have peace because the aim of this initiative is to have economic growth, stability and peace; and, of course, to be able to have peace, to have economic development, you have to solve the ongoing process, ongoing conflicts in the region, and mainly the Palestinian issue, Israeli-Arab conflict and the situation in Iraq. I think this is what you do.

As far as the -- you mentioned the issue of Sahara. Of course, as you know, it is (inaudible) conflict with Morocco and Algeria. It is another Arab Union conflict. It's not even in the UN and but it's not an issue which is not discussed within this -- in this initiative, (inaudible) an issue which is now in UN. But if you want to (inaudible) on this issue, then we are always happy) to do so.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Under Secretary Larson, do you want to say anything or add anything to that?

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: I'd just add two points. I think Ambassador Amrani's answer was exactly right.

The first point is that in the United States President Bush and our administration are working very hard on how to promote a resolution of the issues that divide the Palestinians and Israel. This is a moment where the entire international community needs to work exceptionally hard on that issue, where perhaps there are some opportunities to make progress where progress eluded us in the past.

At the same time, I think it's important to understand that the daily ups and downs of the peace process in the Middle East don't in any way diminish the importance for all of the countries of the region to move forward on those issues that will help create a better life for their people in the future. And I think that it is a shared understanding that both of these are important priorities that have to be addressed with a great energy; that is, first the pursuit of peace throughout the Middle East, but also the pursuit of more opportunity for the next generation of Middle Easterners so that they can have more economic, educational opportunity, and more opportunity to participate in the life of their societies.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Just to add only just a few words, that the ministers in Europe, during the preparatory meeting for the Forum in New York, they affirmed that their support for reform in the region goes hand by hand with the support to a just, comprehensive and definitive settlement of the Israeli-Arab conflict. It's also it is a -- we have (inaudible).

QUESTION: Any work, any measures --

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: One question, then we can come back to you. Okay? The gentleman next to you.

QUESTION: I'm (inaudible) with the office of the (inaudible) news agency here in Baghdad. My question is for Mr. Larson. How do you react to the worries and apprehensions regarding, I mean, the finality of such an initiative raised in the press throughout the Arab world that there is an objective lying behind this initiative to hold the Forum on the Middle East?

Thank you.

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: The only objective that we have is to support initiatives from the within the region to promote more opportunity, to encourage reform and to take steps that will help create a better future for the people that live in the Middle East.

It's a very, very transparent posture that we have. We think that where there is greater opportunity and greater freedom that there is also going to be greater hope, and that that will create benefits for cooperation, including trade; it will also reduce the risk and the appeal of doctrines that are based on hopelessness and despair, and those doctrines include the doctrine of terrorism.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Only I want to add one other thing about this issue and maybe to (inaudible) something. The Forum, this initiative, is a space of dialogue and exchange of ideas and exchange of experiences. It's not international organizations will implement these initiatives and so on. It is a forum, not the -- the experience of the APEC, APEC (inaudible). It is a gathering where countries can exchange ideas, exchange experiences and try to come to something concrete.

And it is open and nothing is imposed. This is (inaudible) a space of (inaudible) and exchange of ideas and possibilities. And also to comment on this issue, is open to member countries, to member states, to states, but also to civil society, to business people. I think it is something new in our region. We have to have the Arab Business Council and the civil society coming together to exchange views and to come with something concrete.

What we need, we need (inaudible) imaginative solutions to our problems. And this must be done, of course, within a partnership with the G-8, a sincere partnership (inaudible) and respectable of the specificities of the region. I think it is important to stress on this issue.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Very good. (Inaudible.) Who would like to ask a question? Anyone at the end of the table? No?

QUESTION: Yes.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Okay.

QUESTION: Yeah, um --

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Could you introduce yourself, too?

QUESTION: Yes, Jim Balmary (ph) with MBC (ph). Most of the -- certainly my understanding, this is not the first or the last initiative, but most of the initiatives have one thing in common, that they do not involve the real stakeholders, the people. I mean, even in most of the governments, including those which have all religions, you can't say really they represent the people.

Now, what have you done or what are you going to do with this particular initiative to involve the real people?

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Okay. Like I was saying earlier, this initiative involves the countries, the governments, but also the civil society and the business community, which we think are essential to promote economic development and growth in the region.

Maybe I can speak on my country, for example, Morocco. Morocco is a country for the last five years has been going on a long and profound reforms and these reforms we were able to implement, reforms in different fields, in human rights and democracy. We tackled reforms, all reforms of economic level, openness, like some FTAs, open economic European Union. We're tackling reforms on the role of (inaudible), for example, plus (inaudible) in Morocco as far as money is concerned.

Every month we have new reforms in our country. The last reforms are on the role of the (inaudible). We decided to open our sky and to open also our media for foreign investment. It's something unique in the Arab and Islamic world, to open the medias that (inaudible) in Morocco.

The banking system. Because we are committed to reforms, we understood since the beginning that (inaudible) reforms, and His Majesty, King Mohamed VI has a clear vision for the future of Morocco.

We believe and a lot of countries believe our experience is unique because we are a strong Arab and Muslim country, but also open, open towards foreign countries, foreign trade, foreign economy. And I think this is our experience. It is an experience, but I think we can really progress if we (inaudible).

I'm sorry, I'm jet-lagged, but it is an ongoing process in Morocco, I want to say. It's an ongoing process of reforms, but also respect for our identity, our specificities in the region.

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: I'd like to just add that our experience in New York at the meeting that Foreign Minister Benaissa and Secretary Powell chaired, the input from the civil society and from the business community was extremely useful and important to that meeting.

So we already have a track record of having the involvement of some of these nongovernmental groups. The business representatives in New York, for example, commented on the importance of addressing unemployment and providing more opportunity for young people, and the civil society representatives talked about the importance of accountability from governments.

And there was an excellent introduction to the discussions that took place subsequently among ministers, and this participation by both civil society and business, as Ambassador Amrani has highlighted, is something that is built into the Forum and it going to continue.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: The gentleman --

QUESTION: Well, I would like to follow up on this very important point here, because I think there is a cleavage between governments and the people in our region. The people go on one way and the government go in another way, so it might be a good idea to invite opposition parties, leaders of opposition parties as well as the representatives of government. And also, the NGOs that are invited, usually, the emphasis is always on business. The business elite is usually allied to the government elite.

So we are inviting the same ones bourgeois, as it seems to be called. Why not invite also the people who really create terrorism and who are really (inaudible), you know, to give their views and, you know, express what is really bothering them. This way we can reach results instead of listening just to the same (inaudible).

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Samir (inaudible) from Al Quds. (Inaudible.)

QUESTION: And I freelance, too.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: A freelance (inaudible).

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Well, I agree completely with your vision. I think that this process should be (inaudible) to everybody because we should, I think to be able to achieve our goals and achieve economic development, we should always seek for some compromise and some negotiation. And for these reasons, we should have democratic cultures in our country.

(Inaudible) this path. This is a long time. I'm talking about my country, for example. Yesterday we had in Morocco a demonstration for Palestine and for the Palestinian issue and some people were against the Forum. I think it is good to have exchange of views on this issue. We accept -- we have to accept -- the other point of view, you know. But also, this could only be done through a real democracy and the (inaudible) of NGOs and civil society. I think his question --

QUESTION: Why don't they invite the leaders of the people who are demonstrating?

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Huh?

QUESTION: Invite the leaders.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Yes, they're invited. There is the civil society in Morocco (inaudible) and with the participation of countries from the opposition. Well, I'm talking about Morocco. I know what is your views is to prove this view.

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: May I add just a couple of points about the civil society and business aspects of this? The actual participants from civil society for the meeting in Rabat are being –- you know, the World Bank is helping to organize them and provide an opportunity for them to decide among themselves who speaks for them at the meeting in Rabat. And if New York is any experience, this is not a group of NGOs that have a particular business focus. They are NGOs that focus on democracy, human rights, free press and issues that are related primarily to governance and what you might call the basic foundations of free societies.

And similarly, in the case of the business representatives, a lot of effort has gone into making sure that this is a broadly representative group of business leaders, not just big executives or leading, well-established firms, but an effort has been made to reach out to smaller business executives as well, so that we have groups that reflect the diversity of the business community and also can speak to the importance of economic reform where that’s appropriate.

I wouldn’t try to suggest that we’re getting to the journalist that this has been worked out perfectly. It’s something that is going to have to develop over time. But it is important to understand that these are independent voices and anyone who attended the meeting in New York would have understood, in the first two minutes of listening to them, that indeed, they have independent voices.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: I have to (inaudible) it is also a building of process. It is an – it’s an unknown process, you know? The most important is, I think, at this stage is the commitment of the countries and the people and the government of the region for reforms.

Reforms means economic, political, social. The approach for me is important. It must be ownership -- that means coming from the region, step by step and involving all the countries. It could change from one day to another, but I think the most important is now in the Arab world, in the broader region, there is, I think, to my understanding, there is a room for change, for modernization, for openness. Of course, that we do this, of course, respectfully of our references, our specificities.

As far as maybe I can talk about Morocco. We have a clear vision for our project, we have a vision for the future since a long time ago, and we continue. It is an ongoing process in my country.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Anyone else have questions?

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: There is a gentleman.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Oh, yes, the follow-up now. Please.

QUESTION: No, not a follow-up. I have another question regarding, I mean, the participation of certain countries. I mean particularly Syria, Iran and Palestinians and Libya also. Were they invited and what is the level of their participation in the Forum?

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Okay, (inaudible) because I am the host country. (Laughter.)

Well, the countries you have mentioned are invited in Rabat and they will be represented as far as the Palestinian Authority, Syria, Libya, Mauritania and other countries, no? You see – and so they will be -- they are invited and they will attend this meeting in Rabat.

QUESTION: Can I have a follow-up? I mean, what’s the level of the U.S. participation in this country in this Forum?

UNDER SECRETARY LASRSON: We expect our two cabinet officers to accept the invitation from Morocco. Secretary of State Colin Powell will be attending and Secretary of the Treasury John Snow will be attending as well.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: We have a -- I think we're going to have a good level of participation. In any case, all the countries have been invited, foreign ministers and ministers of finance. If we again (inaudible) the meeting, it is dealing with (inaudible) but also some important matters on economic and finance.

We have also invited some international organizations and also financial institutions, because it is good to have projects, to have initiatives, but we need to have the financing of all these projects and that's why we are trying to involve the relevant financial institutions to accompany this effort because it is good to have good projects, feasibility studies, but you have no money for this and some countries have made this comment in New York that we need to have financial support, not only from the countries, but also from the private sector, because in order to promote growth and economic reforms, the input of the private sector is important and essential.

QUESTION: What is the representation of women organizations from certain conservative Arab countries like the Gulf countries? Is there any representation? Are they voicing their views about the fact that some of them can’t elect and, you know, can’t run as candidates? Is there anybody representing them in this meeting?

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Well, the countries are representing --

QUESTION: The countries, but --

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Yes, but in New York, if you (inaudible) remembers, you know, the lady who made the fabulous presentation on the -- she was from which country? From Egypt or -- she made the presentation on the civil society and also (inaudible) of course (inaudible) ladies really should have important role to play in the Arab world and we need to encourage this and to help and to promote this.

QUESTION: This is the place where they can voice --

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Of course, of course.

QUESTION: That they can be heard.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Yes, of course.

QUESTION: So they should be invited.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Of course.

QUESTION: Forced even on the government.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Yes. I agree with you. I agree completely with you. In Morocco, (inaudible) in my deliberation, Morocco is really who's (inaudible) all the (inaudible) of this (inaudible).

QUESTION: And you have no problem. I’m talking about –- (laughter) --

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: I understand your views.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Please, yes.

QUESTION: In replying to my question about the involvement of people, the minister mentioned that there was a demonstration in Morocco --

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Yes.

QUESTION: -- against the initiative.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: No, I didn't say that. I said it was a demonstration in Morocco for the Palestinian -- for the Palestinian issue and for Iraq, and there's minority who are demonstrating (inaudible) against the Forum, and this is democratic (inaudible).

QUESTION: Yeah, but I'm from the BBC and we have a report of that minority of (inaudible). Anyway, now the question is, have you explained this initiative? Because so many people, it seems they feel threatened --

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Yes.

QUESTION: -- about this initiative either religion, their religion, way of life and things like that. That’s (inaudible) I mean, there isn’t much involvement, and why should they demonstrate?

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: I think you are right. I think it was a lack of communication (inaudible) in all the Arab world with lack of communication. We didn't communicate too well on this on this issue and briefing is to explain (inaudible). There is nothing because, as I explained, it is ownership, it is from nothing is imposed. What we need, it is a space of dialogue, an exchange of ideas. It’s not something to be imposed. It is something open to all countries. It's open architecture and I think this philosophy was not really well explained at the beginning and we have lack of communication.

Now people are understanding because some people thought that some countries were excluded. Nobody was excluded, you know? So, we need some explanation. Also, you know, the Sea Island initiative itself, it’s a compromise. It's a compromise between different ideas and some ideas were brought forward by the United States, some others by the Europeans, by France, by Germany, and Sea Island initiative was a compromise with the presence in this meeting of several leaders of the countries of the (inaudible). Okay?

So I think you are right. We should explain more our vision. We should explain more our initiative. We should also involve, as the gentleman said, more civil society, more people. It is a long process. I think you know or should know as countries of this region to accept a discussion, to accept (inaudible), to share experiences, to accept democracy and to fully adopt this initiative.

(Inaudible) reforms in the region because many Arab countries and Muslim countries know there are reforms. Of course. Each country each country is doing according to its own speed, its own specificities, but there are reforms. You know, nobody -- everybody what I think which is important for us know there's a commitment for reforms.

It’s commitment. Maybe it’s not -- it needs some more time, it needs some more communication, it needs some more involvement, but there's a commitment; everybody want to change. We are living in a very open society with media on and I think is important.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Anyone else?

QUESTION: I have a question regarding, I mean, the tangible measures that will emerge from this Forum. I am thinking particularly of the Democracy Assistance Dialogue.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Dialogue.

QUESTION: -- promoted by Turkey, Yemen and Italy. What other countries, I mean, targeted by this initiative?

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Al, I think it's your question, no?

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: Yeah, well, the representatives of the Democracy Assistance Dialogue, the three champion countries of Yemen, Turkey and Italy, were meeting last week and I think Ambassador Amrani and I are both waiting for more detailed reports on how that discussion came out. And they will make a proposal at the meeting in Rabat about how this initiative should be carried forward.

What I think -- I think in the answer to the question of who will be a target of this initiative, it will be countries that want to participate, countries that see that it would be helpful to them to work to strengthen some of the institutions of a free society.

One of the things that we discovered when we started consulting the region about these ideas was that there is a great deal of work that is under way to support the institutions of a free society. Many countries are working hard to strengthen their judiciaries, for example, and some G-8 countries are providing technical assistance where it is desired.

A number of other countries are working on projects to support free, independent and professional media, something that I’m sure you all as journalists take an interest in. And a number of G-8 countries are working with partners who are interested in that type of help on those media-related issues.

We also noticed that a number of countries throughout the region are working on elections and some have asked for help from G-8 countries in organizing those elections. That's another example of something that could be pursued further under the Democracy Assistance Dialogue.

You know, the fact that lots of countries are involved in partnerships of this type means that there's a real opportunity to learn from each other on what's working well, what's worked less well. And a real important element of this, and Ambassador Amrani mentioned it earlier in our conversation, was the idea of learning from each other, learning from practices and programs that have been successful in the past.

We do this in other areas of economic assistance regularly. We haven't done it as often in assistance that's focused on strengthening institutions. And so one of the things that could emerge out of this Democracy Assistance Dialogue is a framework for cooperation on programs and policies and cooperation that helps countries strengthen institutions that they are trying to strengthen within their own countries.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Well, just to add only one thing, it's the main initiative is Democracy Assistance Dialogue. It's a dialogue. It's exchange of ideas. If somebody has good ideas, it's like a laboratory. If -- hold on -- some country, like any country has good experience in the field of media, it can be shared and it can, you know, it can dialogue, exchange news. I think this is, this is the importance of the Forum is the dialogue and exchange and maybe we can really progress in some issues. And I agree what Al Larson said about this issue.

QUESTION: May I ask Ambassador Larson -- Under Secretary. One of the -- I gather that this whole initiative was powered by this global war against terrorism. Now, isn't it a time now to define terrorism? Because what the American definition of terrorism is obviously not shared by many Arab countries, and for obvious reasons.

Wouldn't it be appropriate to start from there? I mean, defining the term terrorism? What do you mean by terrorism?

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: Well, I think that this Forum is about opportunity. It's not, in the first instance, about terrorism. Ambassador Amrani mentioned that many of the aspects of this Forum have some general similarities to cooperation in the Asia Pacific Economic Committee. And that's something -- that's a group that is based on volunteerism, is based on cooperation.

One of the basic points of departure, both for APEC, and I believe for the Forum of the Future in the broader Middle East, is a shared view that governments have a responsibility to their own people to try to set out the sorts of institutions and policies that will help them have a better life in the future.

That's, for me, the starting point of the Forum for the Future. That's what you see if you read very closely the Tunis Declaration of the Arab League Summit. That's what this is about. It's about opportunity and creating the conditions for a better life in the future.

Do we believe in the United States that by creating, helping with our partners in this part of the world to create more opportunities, that this has a positive effect on diminishing the appeal of terrorism? Yes. Is that our primary motivation for undertaking this initiative? No.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Well, I agree. I think that, of course, that (inaudible) based on security is the very root of any successful reform in the region. But we don't want to deal with security issues on -- in this Forum. This Forum is for mechanism of cooperation and for promoting new projects.

We have other fora that we deal with security, like United Nations, NATO and so on. But what (inaudible) to secure the stability of region, to secure peace, but based on a sustainable development, social and political reforms.

If it means it's by global security, yes, for reforms, for economic development, peace and stability, this is the fora, this is the action. But for other issues, as terrorism, I think we have to deal with it somewhere else, like in the UN or the European Union or NATO and so on.

But for us, it is, I think, and my belief of my country in Morocco, is that we want to really promote economic reforms, sustainable development, openness, open market and so on to be able to come with a measured solution to help promoting trade, to help to promote unemployment and growth in our region, because what we need now is economic development.

We have great deficits in our country. We have to work (inaudible). We have to work very hard. We have to have -- to have good responses for -- to be able to face our challenges, which you all know -- poverty, economic underdevelopment and so on. And we have, I think we must have, we have -- we must have a strong commitment to combat these deficits.

QUESTION: Can I ask the Under Secretary a question?

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Yes. And then this gentleman will be next. Okay?

QUESTION: Yeah. Do these countries that are economically underdeveloped have something to contribute in terms of suggesting certain ways of improving democracy in the developed countries like the United States and place like this? Is it going to be an exchange of each one telling the other how they can become more democratic or is it a one-way thing?

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: No, it's a two-way street. And it isn't -- as Ambassador Amrani has suggested several times, it's a forum, it's a place for dialogue. You know, in the preparatory meetings that have been held already, there have been suggestions from participants in the broader Middle East about things they would like to see done by G-8 countries.

For example, there has been a suggestion about, you know, can't we make some progress on the trade agenda? Having more trade and more opportunity for trade would be one way of creating growth, promoting economic development, creating jobs in their countries. And we've been very open in the United States to considering how new initiatives or new ideas, discussion about ideas like trade or remittances or tourism could be added to the agenda.

It's a dialogue and anyone, any participant, can bring to the table issues that they think are worthy of discussion, including things that they would like to see G-8 countries or the United States do that they think would create help, create better conditions for economic and social opportunity in the Middle East.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: But also, some countries of the south have their own expertise and also they can contribute to this dialogue. Some countries of the south have the expertise in some issues and I think they could also bring good contribution on this issue.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Chris, you had a question?

QUESTION: Yeah. Well, I'm asking whether -- you mentioned -- those initiatives you have mentioned are about economic, social issues. I mean, is there any initiative directed politically, especially Iraq or the Middle East, as I said before? Or, in other words, how does Sea Island initiative can help Iraq or the Middle East peace process?

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Yes. Well, I think, of course, these initiatives we have are the literacy of Jordan and Bahrain, investment and microfinance. There is the Democracy Assistance Dialogue -- we talk about it.

As far as the commitment or declaration of the -- maybe we can see the New York document. There is a paragraph, I think it's paragraph maybe six of the chairman's summary -- or seven -- six, yes -- of the Arab-Israeli conflict. There is a commitment there. I think it's a commitment based on UN resolution and for the settlement of a Palestinian state.

QUESTION: There is no, I mean, practical measures?

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: I think, you know, as far as the Middle East issue, I think there are a lot of mechanisms that deal with issues -- the UN, Arab League and so on. There's the roadmap.

What's important for us is to implement these resolutions and to implement and to progress in these, because without any settlement, any solution of the Palestinian issue, we cannot progress in the region.

This is (inaudible). I think with settlement, with the setting up of a Palestinian state is a prerequisite for the long term of dynamic in the region. And I think we should also work on this issue (inaudible) but it's like a double track.

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: If I can just add, the questioner the mentioned Iraq. There was very, very recently in the last week a meeting in Sharm el-Sheikh that brought together countries from the region and other important countries, including G-8 countries, to focus specifically on that important issue.

So the fact that not every issue is taken up in this forum doesn't mean that either the issue is unimportant or that there's not an important role for cooperation between regional countries and the countries of the G-8. some of these issues, as Ambassador Amrani, are being handled very, very actively in related fora, and this meeting in Sharm el-Sheikh is just the latest example of that with respect to Iraq.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Are there any more questions?

QUESTION: One simple question. The next venue of the Forum, is there any country who -- I mean, like hosting it?

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: We have (inaudible). In New York, in the meeting of New York, we were surprised. Many countries now, they want to host the next Forum. Many countries of the region, of the Arab countries, want to host the next Forum for the Future.

QUESTION: Any country has come forward?

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Yes, I think four or five. I don't want to say the names, but four or five countries now are interested and we are trying maybe in Rabat to decide who will be the host of another.

This shows once more the interest of the countries to join this movement and accept -- to host (inaudible). And also, Egypt has also (inaudible) in New York, has also accepted to host the G-8 and because of the Arab League meeting.

So there is interest of the countries of the region in order to join this movement, to contribute, you know, or to exchange views within this space of dialogue and exchange of ideas.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Okay, any more questions? Because we'll conclude.

QUESTION: (Inaudible.)

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Huh?

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Yes, well, I understand Under Secretary Larson is available for ten more minutes.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Yes.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: So yes.

QUESTION: Well, on trade and investment, business, what (inaudible) -- I think there is a fear here that probably this initiative will probably weaken the sovereignty of --

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: (Inaudible.)

QUESTION: Yes.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: No, let me see. No, I don't think so. And maybe I can speak as a country. Morocco has been negotiating free trade agreements. We have just signed FTA letters in America and we have agreement with European Union and we have also a process of FTAs within the Agadir process, which is FTA among five or six Arab countries.

As far as these new initiatives, there is no, at this time, free trade agreements. This maybe will come in the near future. Personally, and Morocco has proposed that the issue of trade could be considered as a new initiative because we think that trade offers opportunity of developing our countries.

Of course, with some taken (inaudible) to some problems in the agriculture sector, for example. But in Morocco, for example, we have been able to, for the last year, to be able to negotiate and to sign FTA letters with America. This FTA agreement which has been adopted will open new horizons for our products because we were mainly (inaudible) with the European Union, but we found that America is a good market for our products, agricultural products, for textile, for our industry.

And just take the example of Chile, a small country in South America, has signed FTA with United States and it's selling to the American market. And you know a difference? Casablanca and New York is six-hour flight. Some travel and Washington and New York is nine hours flight. And there's a market I think we should look for new opportunities. Of course, there are some fears (inaudible) as far as some sectors like agriculture, which need some more protections. That's why in the FTA with America we have initiated a period, a transition period, in order to be able to adapt our economy to the necessities of the American market.

QUESTION: Lastly, just this point. When will all this be clear? Because if we as journalists and (inaudible) there's still skepticism.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Yes.

QUESTION: When are you going to make all these things transparent? I mean --

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: They are transparent. You can -- if you have -- if you would read the Sea Island initiative, the chairman's summary in New York, and you have all the ideas, of course it is -- this is a building of a process and we are now working on different initiatives, on the feasibility studies, like Morocco is and Bahrain are responsible -- I'll just give you an example, okay, maybe -- to responsible of the entrepreneurship initiative. We are trying to create in Morocco and Bahrain a center of excellence in order to train business leaders of good governance in our countries. It is to be able to create an (inaudible) between trade and business opportunities.

So we have a lot of these more projects, you know, in literacy. There's a big issue. Nobody tackle this issue. I was waiting for this question. Education reform (inaudible). This is a big issue. (Inaudible) was we were going to tackle this issue in Rabat meeting, but we said no, it's a very big issue, very important issue, just leave it for another time to have to prepare the necessary response for this meeting. And now we have in the future a meeting of education is being organized in the future in order to tackle this issue.

QUESTION: Why is it -- is it reform?

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Reform, of course. And it's (inaudible) because you know the Arab world. We have problem of literacy, we have problem -- we need to work it very hard, you know. Some countries (inaudible) are trying to answer this response, like Morocco (inaudible) and other countries, you know, because it is a big issue for us. Education is one of the important issues we have to tackle in this century.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Okay, well, I -- anyone else? We'll have one last question.

QUESTION: If there's enough time for my last question.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Last question.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Last question.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Last question.

QUESTION: My question is (inaudible) how the U.S. is handling possible confrontation between this process and the European Union process (inaudible), including (inaudible) seminar (inaudible) which, I mean, targets the region (inaudible)?

AMBASADOR AMRANI: I'll answer this question because for Morocco it is very important because we are in the region and we said -- maybe Larson can maybe elaborate on this.

We think Morocco, we should seek for some coherence between these new initiatives and the existing mechanisms in the region, and mainly the Barcelona process with some attaché. We are committed to the Barcelona process, but it couldn't be we shall not try and do something else, only we should (inaudible) to avoid duplication and to seek for some coordination.

And up to now, there is no duplication, there is no contradiction between the two initiatives, and for us it's important we are in the Mediterranean we are committed to (inaudible). We have our interests in the Mediterranean and that's why we are insisting in always keeping in mind the (inaudible) between the Barcelona process and this initiative. And (inaudible) that since the beginning we are saying the same (inaudible).

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: Inaudible.)

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Oh, we don't have any sound. No sound. Put on your mike. Your microphone.

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: There we go.

A PARTICIPANT: You've got to do it again.

UNDER SECRETARY LASRSON: Yes? It’s on now. All right. The only two points that I would add are that there is clearly some value added by bringing Japan --

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Yes.

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: -- and Canada and the United States and Russia into the process, and that’s one of the things that the G-8 initiative does.

The second value added, perhaps, is that from the region, the Rabat meeting brings in the Gulf States more than the Barcelona process has. So there's an expanded participation, both on the part of the developed countries and on the part of the countries of the Middle East region, and I think that that is bringing some new value and some new energy.

Clearly, Ambassador Amrani is correct when he emphasizes the importance of coherence and sort of doing some harmonization here. But I must say that my European colleagues, who had some concerns earlier that there might be conflict between the Barcelona process and this initiative, no longer harbor those concerns. They view – share the view that this is complementary and we’ll just have to keep working to keep it that way.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: That’s right.

QUESTION: (Inaudible.)

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: Okay, I think while --

UNDER SECRETARY LARSON: Thank you.

AMBASSDOR MCKEON: Thank you very much, Under Secretary Larson. Thank you, Ambassador Amrani.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: Thank you very much.

QUESTION: I would like to ask whether Israel is invited.

AMBASSADOR AMRANI: No, it is not invited.

AMBASSADOR MCKEON: All right. Thank you very much for coming, and excellent questions.

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